Stoicism, Politics, and the Best Form of Government — Grant C. Sterling
Stoicism, Politics, and the Best Form of Government — Grant C. Sterling
Three messages by Grant C. Sterling. First and Second: Stoics Yahoo Group, August 1 and August 3, 2013, thread “Re: Stoic politics.” Third: Stoics Yahoo Group, June 19, 2009, thread “Re: Could ancient philosophers have invented popular sovereignty?” Preserved by Dave Kelly, 2026. Layer: Theoretical Core — Political Philosophy. Attribution: Sterling.
Editorial Note — Dave Kelly
These three messages constitute Sterling’s most direct and sustained treatment of political philosophy from within his Stoic framework. They are significant for several reasons.
First, they establish that Sterling does not regard Stoicism as politically indifferent. While agreeing that the ideal Stoic state would be a community of Sages requiring no ordinary government, he holds that for a country of non-Sages — that is, for any real society — the form of government matters philosophically. Some systems encourage virtue; others discourage it; and some structurally conflict with Stoicism’s most fundamental presuppositions.
Second, they establish Sterling’s positive political preference: the Aristotelian virtue-state — a government that affirms a clear conception of virtue and uses the power of the state to guide people toward it. This is not libertarianism (which Sterling argues may encourage vice faster than some totalitarianisms by treating freedom as license for entrenched desires), not democracy (which Plato’s Republic diagnoses with precision), and not Marxism, fascism, or theocracy (all of which Sterling rejects on the grounds that they require the individual to dissolve himself into a collective, an economic system, the State, or submission to a deity).
Third, they establish Sterling’s framework for evaluating political positions philosophically: the test is whether a system’s presuppositions conflict with Stoicism’s foundational commitments. This is the theoretical ground on which the Sterling Ideological Audit rests. Sterling himself identifies the dissolution-producing ideologies by name and by the specific presuppositions that make them incompatible with Stoicism.
The June 2009 self-description — “Grant, the fascist anarchist :)” — is ironic, but illuminating. It captures the tension Sterling identifies: the Stoic rejects all ideologies that subordinate individual rational agency to collective systems (hence “anarchist” in the sense of resisting systemic authority), while simultaneously holding that the best available government for non-Sages is one that uses state power to guide people toward virtue (hence “fascist” as a wry acknowledgment that this position is not liberal or libertarian). The irony is precise: neither label fits, which is Sterling’s point.
Message One: Stoicism and the Stoic Idea of the City — On Marx and the Stoics
Grant C. Sterling to the Stoics Yahoo Group, August 1, 2013. Thread: “Re: Stoic politics.” Responding to the question of whether the Stoic Idea of the City resembles the communist utopia of Karl Marx.
Yes, and No.
There are certainly similarities in the changes in the traditional state called for by Zeno and Marx. If you look primarily at specific ideas about how the state is to be organized, the systems will seem related.
But there is a fundamental divergence in the principles on which their visions are based.
For Marx, humans are fundamentally plastic, molded by their societies into the shapes they take. There is no human nature for Marx, except in the limited sense that we all desire to engage in productive activity. Societies do this, on his view, in a way dominated by economic systems. So economics determines human behavior. The ideal society can be achieved, then, simply by initiating the correct economic system, which will produce ideal people.
The Stoics, of course, would have rejected this entire line of reasoning. They were not social determinists of any kind, and certainly not economic determinists. They believed in fundamental principles of virtuous behavior, which Marx would not have accepted.
As a philosopher, the divergence of the principles seems vastly more important to me than the partial convergence of structures.
Your Mileage may vary.
Regards, GCS
Message Two: The Best Government for a Country of Non-Sages
Grant C. Sterling to the Stoics Yahoo Group, August 3, 2013. Thread: “Re: Stoic politics.” Responding to Steve Marquis on Stoicism, individual agency, and political philosophy.
I certainly agree that Stoicism is about individual choice, and that (as such) it rejects all systems (such as Marxism) which claim that manipulation at the level of government or society is what is truly important. It is individuals who make choices, and individuals who will attain (or fail to attain) eudaimonia on their own power.
I further agree that the true ideal state for the Stoics is a community of Sages, and such a community would have no need for a government anything like that found in other societies.
On the other hand, I do not agree that the quality of a society is irrelevant to the question of whether a given person will attain virtue and eudaimonia. While anyone is capable of making the right choice at any given time, and hence is capable of progressing towards Sagehood, it seems obvious to me that some social settings encourage virtue and some discourage it. (This is how Aristotle, so close to the Stoics in most other doctrines, approaches politics — given that eudaimonia is attained by individual virtue, what social systems will encourage and aid the citizen in seeking it, and what systems will lead the citizen away from it?)
When the Marxist calls for the workers to identify themselves with the collective “the workers” and to rise in rebellion against the state because all that ultimately matters is the economic structure of society, he does indeed seem to me to be proclaiming a political aim that conflicts with Stoicism. The same is true of the fascist who tells the individual that she is nothing more than an organ of the State, or the Islamist who tells her that her only worth comes in submission to Allah, and so the state must be theocratic and anti-rational. I could cite others along this line, but I think this suffices.
On the other hand, that doesn’t mean that the best government for the Stoic is libertarian or democratic. If “freedom” is understood to mean “do whatever you feel like doing at the moment”, such a system actually encourages people to accept and act on their entrenched desires and urges, and this may lead him away from virtue faster than even the totalitarianisms considered above. (For a perfect vision of this, read the section of Plato’s Republic on democracy … or look around you in a country like the U.S.)
So I think the best government for a country of non-Sages is the same government suggested by Aristotle — one that affirms a clear conception of virtue and uses the power of the state to guide people towards it. Not a government that maximizes freedom, nor one that aims primarily at economic prosperity or equality or conquest or any of the other goals that are so widely discussed today. No political party that I know of advocates this — indeed, I highly doubt if any party could ever secure an elective victory on such a platform. Probably most people on this List would find it appalling. But that’s what I think best fits with Stoicism.
On a more practical level — the Sage in a modern society will support or oppose government policies according to whether they seem likely to increase justice and virtue or lead away from them. It will be an act of practical wisdom to choose candidates, parties and policies to support, and no general statement can simplify things. (That is, in a U.S. context, the Stoic will sometimes look like a Republican, sometimes like a Democrat, and sometimes like neither one. Sometimes she will actively campaign for causes, and sometimes she will ignore politics completely and concentrate on plans in her individual family or workplace, etc.)
Regards, Grant
Message Three: Popular Sovereignty as Myth — The Fascist Anarchist
Grant C. Sterling to the Stoics Yahoo Group, June 19, 2009. Thread: “Re: Could ancient philosophers have invented popular sovereignty?” Responding to Jan Garrett on the invention of popular sovereignty as a political myth.
I disagree with this view of philosophical invention, but that’s neither here nor there. For the rest of this post I will accept your theory for the purposes of argument.
I’m confused. I thought the question was could ancient philosophers have invented popular sovereignty. It seems clear to me that Plato is close enough to the idea of popular sovereignty here that a Platonist could have taken the next step. I agree that none of them did.
I disagree — I think the ‘mythic material’, as you say, was quite rich, although I agree with you that the Stoics did not in fact develop such a doctrine. (Which is fine with me, since I think the doctrine is unnecessary insofar as it is true, and pernicious insofar as it is false.)
Regards, Grant, the fascist anarchist :)
Corpus Note — Dave Kelly
These three messages together constitute the primary source material for Sterling’s political philosophy as derived from his Stoic framework.
The August 2013 messages establish the three-part structure of Sterling’s political position. First, Stoicism and Marxism are incompatible not because of surface structural differences but because of fundamental divergence in principles: Marxism is economic determinism applied to human nature; Stoicism holds that individuals make choices independent of material conditions. Second, several ideologies conflict with Stoicism at the level of presupposition, not merely at the level of policy: Marxism requires identifying with the collective; fascism requires treating the individual as an organ of the State; Islamist theocracy requires grounding individual worth in submission. These are named as incompatible because they require dissolution of the individual rational agent into something external to it. Third, the best available government for a country of non-Sages is the Aristotelian virtue-state: one that affirms virtue as its organizing principle and uses state power to guide citizens toward it. This is explicitly preferred to libertarian freedom (which may encourage vice by treating freedom as license) and to democratic preference-satisfaction (which Plato diagnoses as producing a society of entrenched desires).
The June 2009 message establishes Sterling’s treatment of popular sovereignty as a political myth — a useful fiction that replaced an older fiction without becoming more true. His description of himself as “the fascist anarchist” is ironic and precise: he resists all ideologies that subordinate individual rational agency to collective systems, while holding that the best available government uses state authority to promote virtue. The liberal-democratic consensus finds both positions threatening, which is Sterling’s joke.
For the Sterling Ideological Audit, these messages provide the theoretical foundation for the dissolution criterion and the positive account of why philosophical compatibility findings matter. Sterling himself identifies the dissolution-producing ideologies by the presuppositions that make them incompatible: Marxism dissolves the individual into economic structure; fascism dissolves him into the State; theocracy dissolves him into submission to a deity. The framework for the SIA’s Stage One core audit is already present in Sterling’s own analysis.
Sources: Stoics Yahoo Group. “Re: Stoic politics,” August 1, 2013 and August 3, 2013; “Re: Could ancient philosophers have invented popular sovereignty?” June 19, 2009. Author: Grant C. Sterling. Preserved by Dave Kelly, 2026.

